Sunday, November 18, 2012
Yeshu ben Pantera or Yeshua ben Yosef ?
1. came to Israel from Egypt
2. lived approximately in 130 BCE
3. mother was Mirium, father was Pandira
4. studied under Rabbi Yehoshua ben Pandira, practiced and taught black magic and sorcery
5. committed heinous acts against children
6. had 5 disciples
7. started a false messiah movement called the Notzrim
8. was tied to the government under protection of certain people
9. executed (hanged) by the Jewish Court (no imperial rule over Israel, they were able to execute a person under the laws of the Torah)
10. was executed the day BEFORE the day of preparation for Passover
11. was called "Yeshu" by the Talmudic Rabbis
Yeshua ben Yosef of Nazareth (of the New Testament)
1. born in Bethlehem and raised in Galilee
2. lived approximately in 4 BCE
3. mother was Mirium (Mary), father was Yosef,
4. studied, practiced and taught Judaism
5. supported the Pharisaic School of Hillel & Shamai - Hasidic movement in Galilee and the Essenes
6. had 12 disciples
7. started the Netzarim (Nazarene) movement
8. had no ties to the government at all
9. executed by the Roman Courts (Rome had imperial rule over Israel, Jewish court had no authority to order or carry out an execution)
10. was executed (scourged - crucified) the day OF preparation for Passover
11. not mentioned in the Talmud except for alluded to writings
Any person with common sense would see that the Talmud is referring to a totally different person. There were other Yeshuas who were in the likes of Yeshua ben Pandira; there was Yeshua ben Stada, and others. There were over 24 Yeshu's from different time periods recorded in the Talmud.
These people were called "YESHU." But, the Talmud refers to Manasseh the king of Judah as "YESHU." (Talmud Bavli Sanhedrin 103a & Berakhot 17b). The Talmud also calls an individual "YESHU," who lived during the Hashmonean Era (Talmud Yerushalmi Chagigah 2:2). Also in Gittin 56b and 57a, there other people who were called "YESHU," but these people are military enemies of Israel.
The acronym "YESHU" (Yud Shin Vav) is completely unrelated to the name "Yeshua." The acronym YESHU is used in Rabbinic material to identify any Rasha (wicked person) or a Tzadik (righteous person). "YESHU" is an acronym that stands for two things, "Yimmach Shemo Vezikhro", meaning "May his name and memory be blotted out." And its other meaning is "Yishtabach Shemo Vezikhro" meaning "May his name and memory be praised."
So, there is no Talmudic Sage who ever called Yeshua of the New Testament "YESHU." This title was later applied to Yeshua by Jews, due to the corresponding anger towards Christianity's continuous onslaught. The title stuck. Many Jews and Christians unfortunately are mistakenly taught that the Talmud is referring to the Yeshua of the NT, but nothing could be further from the truth.
there is no mention of Yeshua of Nazareth in the Talmud whatsoever. Anyone with proper knowledge of the Talmud would know that there are many different Yehoshua's and Yeshua's mentioned in the Talmud as this was a common Jewish name. Many of which are actually Rabbis, and others are people that have been recorded accounts through out the pre-Talmudic period and the Talmudic period itself. There were over 24 people given the title "Yeshu" from different time periods recorded in the Talmud. None of which are the Yeshua of the New Testament.
The Yeshua being spoken of in Sanhedrin 43A was an individual that lived 130 years before the Yeshua of the New Testament. This Yeshua's full name was Yeshua ben Pandira, student of Rabbi Yehoshua Perachiyah and was executed (hanged) by the Jewish court the day before the day of preparation of Passover for repeated incidents of performing and teaching black magic and sorcery. He was caught doing heinous acts to children but had ties to the government which protected him for a short while. Let me point out that during this time, the Jewish government was not under imperial control and had the right to order and carry out an execution. He started a false messiah movement. His mother was Mirium and his father was Pandira. This Yeshua only had 5 disciples and was not even from Galilee or Nazareth. Yeshu ben Pandira was the founder of the Noztrim movement, not the same word as Netzarim. He was called "Yeshu," by the Talmudic Rabbis.
The Yeshua of the New Testament was born in Bethlehem and lived in Galilee and lived 130 years after and was executed (scourged and crucified) by the Roman courts and he had 12 disciples not 5. His mother was Mirium, his father was Yosef not Pandira. And he was the founder of the Netzarim (Nazarene) movement, not the Notzrim movement (two different words). The Yeshua of the New Testament was executed on the day of preparation for Passover not the day before. It is important to note, that during this time the Jewish government was under the imperial control of Rome and did not have the right to order and execution without permission of the Roman governor. - Sanjaya Shem
Posted by shvt at 6:00 PM